Tag Archive for: interview

Will Thalheimer Interviewed by Learnnovators

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The LEARNNOVATORS team (specifically Santhosh Kumar) asked if I would join them in their Crystal Balling with Learnnovators interview series, and I accepted! They have some really great people on the series, I recommend that you check it out!

The most impressive thing was that they must have studied my whole career history and read my publication list and watched my videos because they came up with a whole set of very pertinent and important questions. I was BLOWN AWAY—completely IMPRESSED! And, given their dedication, I spent a ton of time preparing and answering their questions.

It’s a two part series and here are the links:

Here are some of the quotes they pulled out and/or I’d like to highlight:

Learning is one of the most wondrous, complex, and important areas of human functioning.

The explosion of different learning technologies beyond authoring tools and LMSs is likely to create a wave of innovations in learning.

Data can be good, but also very very bad.

Learning Analytics is poised to cause problems as well. People are measuring all the wrong things. They are measuring what is easy to measure in learning, but not what is important.

We will be bamboozled by vendors who say they are using AI, but are not, or who are using just 1% AI and claiming that their product is AI-based.

Our senior managers don’t understand learning, they think it is easy, so they don’t support L&D like they should.

Because our L&D leaders live in a world where they are not understood, they do stupid stuff like pretending to align learning with business terminology and business-school vibes—forgetting to align first with learning.

We lie to our senior leaders when we show them our learning data—our smile sheets and our attendance data. We then manage toward these superstitious targets, causing a gross loss of effectiveness.

Learning is hard and learning that is focused on work is even harder because our learners have other priorities—so we shouldn’t beat ourselves up too much.

We know from the science of human cognition that when people encounter visual stimuli, their eyes move rapidly from one object to another and back again trying to comprehend what they see. I call this the “eye-path phenomenon.” So, because of this inherent human tendency, we as presenters—as learning designers too!—have to design our presentation slides to align with these eye-path movements.

Organizations now—and even more so in the near future—will use many tools in a Learning-Technology Stack. These will include (1) platforms that offer asynchronous cloud-based learning environments that enable and encourage better learning designs, (2) tools that enable realistic practice in decision-making, (3) tools that reinforce and remind learners, (4) spaced-learning tools, (5) habit-support tools, (6) insight-learning tools (those that enable creative ideation and innovation), et cetera

Learnnovators asked me what I hoped for the learning and development field. Here’s what I said:

Nobody is good at predicting the future, so I will share the vision I hope for. I hope we in learning and development continue to be passionate about helping other people learn and perform at their best. I hope we recognize that we have a responsibility not just to our organizations, but beyond business results to our learners, their coworkers/families/friends, to the community, society, and the environs. I hope we become brilliantly professionalized, having rigorous standards, a well-researched body of knowledge, higher salaries, and career paths beyond L&D. I hope we measure better, using our results to improve what we do. I hope we, more-and-more, take a small-S scientific approach to our practices, doing more A-B testing, compiling a database of meaningful results, building virtuous cycles of continuous improvement. I hope we develop better tools to make building better learning—and better performance—easier and more effective. And I hope we continue to feel good about our contributions to learning. Learning is at the heart of our humanity!

Thalheimer Interviewed on Learning Evaluation by LearningNews

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While I was in London a few months ago, where I talked about learning evaluation, I was interviewed by the LearningNews about learning evaluation.

Some of what I said:

  • “Most of us have been doing the same damn thing we’ve always done [in learning evaluation]. On the other hand, there is a breaking of the logjam.”
  • “A lot of us are defaulting to happy sheets, and happy sheets that aren’t effective.”
  • “Do we in L&D have the skills to be able to do evaluation in the first place?…. My short answer is NO WAY!”
  • “We can’t upskill ourselves fast enough [in terms of learning evaluation].

It was a fun interview and LearningNews did a nice job in editing it. Special thanks to Rob Clarke for the interview, organizing, and video work (along with his great team)!!

Click here to see the interview.

Will Thalheimer Interviewed by Jeffrey Dalto

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Series of Four Interviews

I was recently interviewed by Jeffrey Dalto of Convergence Training. Jeffrey is a big fan of research-based practice. He did a great job compiling the interviews.

Click on the title of each one to read the interview:

Interview with Karl Kapp on Games, Gamification, and LEARNING!

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Dr. Karl Kapp is one of the learning field’s best research-to-practice gurus! Legendary for his generosity and indefatigable energy, it is my pleasure to interview him for his wisdom on games, gamification, and their intersection.

His books on games and gamification are wonderful. You can click on the images below to view them on Amazon.com.

 

 

The following is a master class on games and learning:

 

Will (Question 1):

Karl, you’ve written a definitive exploration of Gamification in your book, The Gamification of Learning and Instruction: Game-Based Methods and Strategies for Training and Education. As I read your book I was struck by your insistence that Gamification “is not the superficial addition of points, rewards, and badges to learning experiences.” What the heck are you talking about? Everybody knows that gamification is all about leaderboards, or so the marketplace would make us believe… [WINK, WINK] What are you getting at in your repeated warning that gamification is more complex than we might think?

Karl:

If you examine why people play games, the reasons are many, but often players talk about the sense of mastery, the enjoyment of overcoming a challenge, the thrill of winning and the joy of exploring the environment. They talk about how they moved from one level to another or how they encountered a “boss level” and defeated the boss after several attempts or how they strategized a certain way to accomplish the goal of winning the game. Or they describe how they allocated resources so they could defeat a difficult opponent. Rarely, if ever, do people who play games talk about the thrill of earning a point or the joy of being number seven on the leaderboard or the excitement of earning a badge just for showing up.

The elements of points, badges and leaderboards (PBLs) are the least exciting and enticing elements of playing games. So there is no way we should lead with those items when gamifying instruction. Sure PBLs play a role in making a game more understandable or in determining how far away a player is from the “best” but they do little to internally motivate players by themselves. Reliance solely on the PBL elements of games to drive learner engagement is not sustainable and not even what makes games motivational or engaging. It’s the wrong approach to learning and motivation. It’s superficial; it’s not deep enough to have lasting meaning.

Instead, we need to look at the more intrinsically motivating and deeper elements of games such as: challenge, mystery, story, constructive feedback (meaningful consequences) strategy, socialization and other elements that make games inherently engaging. We miss a large opportunity when we limit our “game thinking” to points, badges and leaderboards. We need to expand our thinking to include elements that truly engage a player and draw them into a game. These are the things that make games fun and frustrating and worth our investment in time.

 

Will (Question 2):

You wrote that “too many elements of reality and the game ceases to be engaging,”—and I’m probably taking this out of context—but I wonder if that is true in all cases? For example, I can imagine a realistic flight simulator for fighter pilots that creates an almost perfect replica of the cockpit, g-forces, and more, that would be highly engaging… On the other hand, my 13-year-daughter got me hooked on Tanki, an online tank shot-em-up game, and there are very few elements of reality in the game—and I, unfortunately, find it very engaging. Is it different for novices and experts? Are the recommendations for perceptual fidelity different for different topic areas, different learning goals, et cetera?

Karl:

A while ago, I read a fake advertisement for a military game. It was a parody. The fake game description described how the “ultra-realistic” military game would be hours of fun because it was just like actually being in the military. The description told the player that he or she would have hours of fun walking to the mess hall, maintaining equipment, getting gasoline for the jeep, washing boots, patrolling and zigging and cleaning latrines. Now none of these things are really fun, in fact, they are boring but they are part of the life of being in the military. Military games don’t include these mundane activities. Instead, you are always battling an enemy or strategizing what to do next. The actions that a military force performs 95% of the time are not included in the game because they are too boring.

 If games where 100% realistic, they would not be fun. So, instead, games are an abstraction of reality because they focus on things within reality that can be made engaging or interesting. If a game reflected reality 100%, there would be boring game play. Now certainly, games can be designed to “improve” reality and make it more fun. In the game, The Sims, you wake up, get dressed and go to work which all seems pretty mundane. However, these realistic activities in The Sims are an abstraction of the tasks you actually perform. The layer of abstraction makes the game more exciting, engaging and fun. But in either the military game case or The Sims, too much reality is not fun.

The flight simulator needs to be 100% realistic because it’s not really a game (although people do play it as a game) but the real purpose of a simulation is training and perfection of skills. A flight simulator can be fun for some people to “play” but in a 100% realistic simulator, if you don’t know what you are doing, it’s boring because you keep crashing. For someone who doesn’t know how to fly, like me. If you made a World War II air battle game which had 100% realistic controls for my airplane, it wouldn’t be fun. In game design, we need to balance elements of reality with the learning goal and the element of engagement.

For some people, a simulator can be highly engaging because the learner is performing the task she would do on the job. So there needs to be a balance in games and simulations to have the right amount of reality for the goals you are trying to achieve.

 

Will (Question 3):

In developing a learning game, what should come first, the game or the goals (of learning)?

Karl:

Learning goals must come first and must remain at the forefront of the game design process. Too often I see the mistake of a design team becoming too focused on games elements and losing site of the learning goals. In our field, we are paid to help people learn, not to entertain them. Learning first.

Having said that, you can’t ignore or treat the game elements as second class citizens, you can’t bolt-on a points system and think you have now developed a fun game—you haven’t. The best process involves simultaneously integrating game mechanics and learning elements. It’s tricky and not a lot of instructional designers have experience or training in this area but it’s critical to have integration of game and learning elements, the two need to be designed together. Neither can be an afterthought.

 

Will (Question 4):

Later we’ll talk about the research you’ve uncovered about the effectiveness of games. As I peruse the literature on games, the focus is mostly on the potential benefits of games. But what about drawbacks? I, for one, “waste” a ton of time playing games. Opportunity costs are certainly one issue, but maybe there are other drawbacks as well, including addiction to the endorphins and adrenaline; a heightened state of engagement during gaming that may make other aspects of living – or learning – seem less interesting, engaging. What about learning bad ideas, being desensitized to violence, sexual predation, or other anti-social behaviors? Are there downsides to games? And, in your opinion, has the research to date done enough to examine negative consequences of games?

Karl:

Yes, games can have horrible, anti-social content. They can also have wonderful, pro-social content. In fact, a growing area of game research focuses on possible pro-social aspects of games. The answer really is the content. A “game” per-say is neither pro- or anti-social like any other instructional medium. Look at speeches. Stalin gave speeches filled with horrible content and Martin Luther King, Jr. gave speeches filled with inspiring content. Yet we never seem to ask the question “Are speeches inherently good or bad?”

Games, like other instructional media, have caveats that good instructional designers need to factor when deciding if a game is the right instructional intervention. Certainly time is a big factor. It takes time to both develop a game and to play a game. So this is a huge downside. You need to weigh the impact you think the game will have on learner retention or knowledge versus another instructional intervention. Although, I can tell you there are at least two meta-analysis studies that indicate that games are more effective for learning than traditional, lecture-based instruction. But the point is not to blindly choose game over lecture or discussion. The decision regarding the right instructional design needs to be thoughtful. Knowing the caveats should factor into the final design decision.

Another caveat is that games should not be “stand-alone.” It’s far better for a learning game to be included as part of a larger curriculum rather than developed without any sense of how it fits into the larger pictures. Designers need to make sure they don’t lose site of the learning objective. If you are considering deploying a game within your organization, you have to make sure it’s appropriate for your culture. Another big factor to consider is how the losers are handled in the game. If a person is not successful at a game, what are the repercussions? What if she gets mad and shuts down? What if he walks away halfway through the experience because he is so frustrated? These types of contingencies need to be considered when developing a game. So, yes, there are downsides to games as there are downsides to other types of instruction. Our job, as instructional designers, is to understand as many downsides and upsides as possible for many different design possibilities and make an informed, evidence-based decision.

 

Will (Question 5):

As you found in your research review, feedback is a critical element in gaming. I’ve anointed “feedback” as one of the most important learning factors in my Decisive Dozen – as feedback is critical in all learning. The feedback research doesn’t seem definitive in recommending immediate versus delayed feedback, but the wisdom I take from the research suggests that delayed feedback is beneficial in supporting long-term remembering, whereas immediate feedback is beneficial in helping people “get” or comprehend key learning points or contingencies. In some sense, learners have to build correct mental models before they can (or should) reinforce those understandings through repetitions, reinforcement, and retrieval practice.

Am I right that most games provide immediate feedback? If not, when is immediate feedback common in games, when is delayed feedback common? What missed opportunities are there in feedback design?

Karl:

You are right; most games provide immediate, corrective feedback. You know right-away if you are performing the right action and, if not, the consequences of performing the wrong action. A number of games also provide delayed feedback in the form of after-action reviews. These are often seen in games using branching. At the end of the game, the player is given a description of choices she made versus the correct choices. So, delayed feedback is common in some types of games. In terms of what is missing in terms of feedback, I think that most learning games do a poor job of layering feedback. In well-designed video games, at the first level of help, a player can receive a vague clue. If this doesn’t work or too much time passes, the game provides a more explicit clue and finally, if that doesn’t work, the player receives step-by-step instructions. Most learning games are too blunt. They tend to give the player the answer right away rather than layers choices or escalating the help. I think that is a huge missed opportunity.

 

Will (Question 6):

By the way, your book does a really nice job in describing the complexity and subtlety of feedback, including Robin Hunicke’s formulation for what makes feedback “juicy.” What subtleties around feedback do most of us instructional designers or instructors tend to miss?

Karl:

Our feedback in learning games and even elearning modules is just too blunt. We need more subtlety. Hunicke describes the need for feedback to have many different attributes including the need for the feedback to be tactile and coherent. She refers to tactile feedback as creating an experience where the player can feel the feedback as it is occurring on screen so that it’s not forced or unnatural within the game play. Instructional designers typically don’t create feedback the player or learner feels, typically, they create feedback that is “in your face” such as “Nice job!” or “Sorry, try again.” She describes coherent feedback as feedback that stays within the context of the game. It is congruent with on screen actions and activities as well as with the storyline unfolding as the interactions occur. Our learning games seem to fail at including both of these elements in our feedback. In general, our field needs to focus on feedback that is more naturally occurring and within the flow of the learning.

 

Will (Question 7):

Do learners have to enjoy the game to learn from it? What are the benefits of game pleasure? Are there drawbacks at all?

Karl:

Actually, research by Tracy Sitzmann indicates (2011) that a learner doesn’t have to indicate that he or she was “entertained” to learn from a serious game. So fun should not be the standard by which we measure the success of game. Instead, she found that what makes a game effective for learning is the level of engagement. Engagement should be the goal when designing a learning game. However, there are a number of studies that indicate that games are motivational. Although, one meta-analysis on games indicated that motivation was not a factor. So, I am not sure if pleasure is a necessary factor for learning. Instead, I tend to focus more on building engagement and having learners make meaningful decisions and less on learner enjoyment and fun. This tends to run counter to why most people want a learning game but the reason we should want learning games is to encourage engagement and higher order thinking and not to simply make boring learning fun. Engagement, mastery and tough decision making might not always be fun but, as you indicated in your questions about simulations, it can be engaging and learning results from engagement and then understanding the consequences of actions taken during that engagement.

 

Will (Question 8):

As I was perusing research on games, one of my surprises was that games seemed to be used for health-behavior change at least as much as learning. What they heck’s going on?

Karl:

Games are great tools for promoting health. We all know that we should focus on health and wellness but we often let other life elements get in the way. Making staying healthy a game provides, in many cases that little bit of extra motivation to make you stay on course. I think games for health work so well because they capitalize on our already existing knowledge that we need to stay healthy and then provide tracking of progress, earning of points and other incentives to help us give that extra boost that makes us take the extra 100 steps needed to get our 10,000 for the day. Ironically, I find games used in many life and death situations.

 

Will (Question 9):

In your book you have a whole chapter devoted to research on games. I really like your review. Of course, with all the recent research, maybe we’ve learned even more. Indeed, I just did a search of PsycINFO (a database of scientific research in the social sciences). When I searched for “games” in the title, I found 110 articles in peer-reviewed journals in this year (2016) alone. That’s a ton of research on games!!

Let’s start with the finding in your book that the research methodology of much of the research is not very rigorous. You found that concern from more than one reviewer. Is that still true today (in 2016)? If the research base is not yet solid, what does that mean for us as practitioners? Should we trust the research results or should we be highly skeptical — OR, where in-between these extremes should we be?

Karl:

The short answer, as with any body of research, is to be skeptical but not paralyzed. Waiting for the definitive decision on games is a continually evolving process. Research results are rarely a definitive answer; they only give us guidance. I am sure you remember when “research” indicated that eggs were horrible for you and then “research” revealed that eggs were the ultimate health food. We need to know that research evolves and is not static. And, we need to keep in mind that some research indicated that smoking had health benefits so I am always somewhat skeptical. Having said that, I don’t let skepticism stop me from doing something. If the research seems to be pointing in a direction but I don’t have all the answers, I’ll still “try it out” to see for myself.

That said the research on games, even research done today, could be much more rigorous. There are many flaws which include small sample sizes, no universal definition of games and too much focus on comparing the outcomes of games with the outcomes of traditional instruction. One would think that argument would be pretty much over but decade after decade we continue to compare “traditional instruction” with radio, television, games and now mobile devices. After decades of research the findings are almost always the same. Good design, regardless of the delivery medium, is the most crucial aspect for learning. Where the research really needs to go, and it’s starting to go in that direction, is toward comparing elements of games to see which elements lead to the most effective and deep learning outcomes. So, for example, is the use of a narrative more effective in a learning game than the use of a leaderboard or is the use of characters more critical for learning than the use of a strategy-based design? I think the blanket comparisons are bad and, in many cases, misleading. For example, Tic-Tac-Toe is a game but so is Assassin’s Creed IV. So to say that all games teach pattern recognition because Tic-Tac-Toe teaches pattern recognition is not good. As Clark Aldrich stated years ago, the research community needs some sort of taxonomy to help identify different genres of games and then research into the learning impact of those genres.

So, I am always skeptical of game research and try to carefully describe limitations of the research I conduct and to carefully review research that has been conducted by others. I tend to like meta-analysis studies which are one method of looking at the body of research in the field and then drawing conclusions but even those aren’t perfect as you have arguments about what studies were included and what studies were not included.

At this point I think we have some general guidelines about the use of games in learning. We know that games are most effective in a curriculum when they are introduced and described to the learners, then the learners play the game and then there is a debrief. I would like to focus more on what we know from the research on games and how to implement games effectively rather than the continuous, and in my opinion, pointless comparison of games to traditional instruction. Let’s just focus on what works when games do provide positive learning outcomes.

 

Will (Question 10):

A recent review of serious games (Tsekleves, Cosmas, & Aggoun, 2014, 2016) concluded that their benefits were still not fully supported. “Despite the increased use of computer games and serious games in education, there are still very few empirical studies with conclusive results on the effectiveness of serious games in education.” This seems a bit strong given other findings from recent meta-analyses, for example the moderate effect sizes found in a meta-analysis from Wouters, van Nimwegen, van Oostendorp, & van der Spek (2013).

Can you give us a sense of the research? Are serious games generally better, sometimes better, or rarely better than conventional instruction? Or, are they better in some circumstance, for some learners, for some topics – rather than others? How should us practitioners think about the research findings?

Karl:

Wouters et al. (2013) found that games are more effective than traditional instruction as did Stizmann (2011). But, as you indicated, other meta-analysis studies have not come to that conclusion. So, again, I think the real issue is that the term “games” is way too broad for easy comparisons and we need to focus more on the elements of games and how the individual elements intermingle and combine to cause learning to occur. One major problem with research in the field of games is that to conduct effective and definitive research we often want to isolate one variable and then keep all other variables that same. That processes is extremely difficult to do with games. New research methods might need to be invented to effectively discover how game variables interact with one another. I even saw an article that declared that all games are situational learning and should be studied in that context rather than in an experimental context. I don’t know the answer but there are few simple solutions to game-based research and definitive declarations of the effectiveness of games.

However, having said all that, here are some things we do know from the research related to using games for learning:

  • Games should be embedded in instructional programs. The best learning outcomes from using a game in the classroom occur when a three-step embedding process is followed. The teacher should first introduce the game and explain its learning objectives to the students. Then the students play the game. Finally, after the game is played, the teacher and students should debrief one another on what was learned and how the events of the game support the instructional objectives. This process helps ensure that learning occurs from playing the game (Hays, 2005; Sitzmann, 2011).
  • Ensure game objectives align with curriculum objectives. Ke (2009) found that the learning outcomes achieved through computer games depend largely on how educators align learning (i.e., learning subject areas and learning purposes), learner characteristics, and game-based pedagogy with the design of an instructional game. In other words, if the game objectives match the curriculum objectives, disjunctions are avoided between the game design and curricular goals (Schifter, 2013). The more closely aligned curriculum goals and game goals, the more likely the learning outcomes of the game will match the desired learning outcomes of the student.
  • Games need to include instructional support. In games without instructional support such as elaborative feedback, pedagogical agents, and multimodal information presentations (Hays, 2005; Ke, 2009; Wouters et al., 2013)., students tend to learn how to play the game rather than learn domain-specific knowledge embedded in the game. Instructional support that helps learners understand how to use the game increases the effectiveness of the game by enabling learners to focus on its content rather than its operational rules.
  • Games do not need to be perceived as being “entertaining” to be educationally effective. Although we may hope that Maria finds the game entertaining, research indicates that a student does not need to perceive a game as entertaining to still receive learning benefits. In a meta-analysis of 65 game studies, Sitzmann (2011) found that although “most simulation game models and review articles propose that the entertainment value of the instruction is a key feature that influences instructional effectiveness, entertainment is not a prerequisite for learning,” that entertainment value did not impact learning (see also Garris et al., 2002; Tennyson & Jorczak, 2008; Wilson et al., 2009). Furthermore, what is entertaining to one student may not be entertaining to another. The fundamental criterion in selecting or creating a game should be the learner’s actively engagement with the content rather than simply being entertained (Dondling, 2007; Sitzmann, 2011).

 

Will (Question 11):

If the research results are still tentative, or are only strong in certain areas, how should we as learning designers think about serious games? Is there overall advice you would recommend?

Karl:

First of all, I’d like to point to the research that exists indicating that lectures are not as effective for learning as some believe. So practitioners, faculty members and others have defaulted to lectures and held them up as the “holy grail” of learning experiences when the literature clearly doesn’t back up the use of lectures as the best method for teaching higher level thinking skills. If one wants to be skeptical of learning designs, start with the lecture.

Second, I think the guidelines outlined above are a good start. We are literally learning more all the time so keep checking to see the latest. I try to publish research on my blog (karlkapp.com) and at the ATD Science of Learning blog and, of course, the Will at Work blog for all things learning research are good places to look.

Third, we need to take more chances. Don’t be paralyzed waiting for research to tell you what to do. Try something, if you fail, try something else. Sure you can spend your career creating safe PowerPoint-based slide shows where you hit next to continue but that doesn’t really move your career or the field forward. Take what is known from reading books and from vetted and trusted internet sources and make professionally informed decisions.

 

Will (Question 12):

Finally, if we decide to go ahead and develop or purchase a serious game, what are the five most important things people should know?

Karl:

  1. First clearly define your goals. Why are you designing or purchasing a serious game and what do you expect as the outcome? After the learners play the game what should they be able to do? How should they think? What result do you desire? Without a clearly defined outcome, you will run into problems.
  2. Determine how the game fits into your overall learning curriculum. Games should not be stand-alone; they really should be an integral part of a larger instructional plan. Determine where the serious game fits into the bigger picture.
  3. Consider your corporate culture. So cultures will allow a fanciful game with zombies or strange characters and some will not. Know what your culture will tolerate in terms of game look and feel and then work within those parameters.
  4. If the game is electronic, get your information technology (IT) folks involved early. You’ll need to look at things like download speed, access, browser compatibility and a host of other technical issues that you need to consider.
  5. Think carefully and deeply before you decide to develop a game internally. Developing good, effective serious games is tough. It’s not a two-week project. Partner with a vendor to obtain the desired result.
  6. (A bonus) Don’t neglect the power of card games or board games for teaching. If you have the opportunity to bring learners together, consider low-tech game solutions. Sometimes those are the most impactful.

 

Will (Question 13):

One of your key pieces of advice is for folks to play games to learn about their power and potential. What kind of games should we choose to play? How should we prioritize our game playing? What kind of games should we avoid because they’ll just be a waste of time or might give us bad ideas about games for learning?

Karl:

I think you should play all types of games. First, pick different types of games from a delivery perspective so pick some card games, board games, causal games on your smartphone and video games on a game console. Mix it up. Then play different types of games such as role-play games, cooperative games, matching games, racing games, games where you collect items (like Pokémon Go). The trick is to not just play games that you like but to play a variety of games. You want to build a “vocabulary” of game knowledge. Once you’ve built a vocabulary, you will have a formidable knowledge base on which to draw when you want to create a new learning game.

Also, you can’t just play the games. You need to play and critically evaluate the games. Pay attention to what is engaging about the game, what is confusing, how the rules are crafted, what game mechanics are being employed, etc.? Play games with a critical eye. Of course, you will run the danger of ruining the fun of games because you will dissect any game you are playing to determine what about the game is good and what is bad but, that’s ok, you need that skill to help you design games. You want to think like a game designer because when you create a serious game, you are a game designer. Therefore, the greater the variety of game you the play and dissect, the better game designer you will become.

 

Will (Question 14):

If folks are interested, where can they get your book?

Karl:

Amazon.com is a great place to purchase my book or at the ATD web site. Also, if people have access to Lynda.com, I have several courses on Lynda including “The Gamification of Learning”. And I have a new book coming out in January co-authored by my friend Sharon Boller called “Play to Learn” where we walk readers through the entire serious game design process from conceptualization to implementation. We are really excited about that book because we think it will be very helpful for people who want to create learning games.

 

You can click on the images below to view Karl’s Gamification books on Amazon.com.

 

 

 

 

Research

Sitzmann, T. (2011). A meta-analytic examination of the instructional effectiveness of computer-based simulation games. Personnel Psychology, 64(2), 489–528.

Tsekleves, E., Cosmas, J., & Aggoun, A. (2016). Benefits, barriers and guideline recommendations for the implementation of serious games in education for stakeholders and policymakers. British Journal of Educational Technology, 47(1), 164-183. Available at: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjet.12223/pdf

Wouters, P., van Nimwegen, C., van Oostendorp, H., & van der Spek, E. D. (2013). A meta-analysis of the cognitive and motivational effects of serious games. Journal of Educational Psychology, 105(2), 249-265. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/a0031311

Interview with Connie Malamed about her book Visual Design Solutions

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Connie Malamed is The eLearning Coach, an intriguing podcaster, and the author of two fantastic books on visual design. Here I interview her in regards to her most recent book, Visual Design Solutions.

 

Here is the book:

Here is Connie:

1.

Will:
Connie, in your book, Visual Design Solutions: Principles and Creative Inspiration for Learning Professionals, your goal seems to be to help learning professionals utilize effective visuals to improve their learning outcomes. Indeed, you dedicate the book to “the hard-working creative learning professionals who want to make a difference.”

Tell me about your hope for the book and the importance visual design has for learning professionals?

 

Connie:
My three goals in writing this book were to: 1) prove that it is possible to improve one’s visual design skills without being an artist, 2) demonstrate the benefits of using visuals to enhance and amplify learning, and 3) raise awareness about the importance of aesthetics in a learner’s experience.

For those with normal vision, the brain processes more sensory information from the eyes than from any other sense. So learning professionals should expect that the visual aspect of instructional materials would be of great importance to comprehension, retention and the user experience. The good news is that anyone can become more competent in visual design by learning, applying and practicing the foundation principles.

 

2.

Will:
Many learning professionals enter the field with little or no background or experience in graphic arts, visualization principles, or aesthetics—and yet you declare in your book that “you do not need drawing talent to work as a visual designer.” First, let me ask you, “Why not?” Second, let me ask you what key skills people do need to be effective at the visual aspects of learning design?

 

Connie:
Early in my career, I met an excellent designer who didn’t know how to draw. He told me he wasn’t an illustrator. I was shocked. Since then, I’ve met and read about many designers who do not illustrate. Visual design involves the arrangement of images and text in graphic space. To be able to do this, one doesn’t need to render with a pen or pencil. Of course, it’s always nice to brainstorm ideas with a pencil and sketchpad, but visual concepts can be communicated using geometric shapes and stick figures.

The skills that I think people need for visual design competence can be learned. Here is my list:

  • An understanding of how to think about and solve visual problems.
  • Foundation principles of design, such as use of white space, establishing a visual hierarchy and appreciating typography.
  • Awareness of design in the world around you to see how others have solved visual problems.

 

3.

Will:
I noticed in your book that you begin with lots of research supporting the benefits of using visuals. But certainly visuals can also be used in such a way that causes harm. What are some of the problems involved in using visuals? What are some of the most common mistakes learning professionals make?


Connie:
Right. Like anything else, it takes thoughtfulness to come up with an effective visual design. I think common problems are: cluttering a layout with too many flourishes, using irrelevant graphics that are distracting, and splitting attention so that the visuals and text or activity are not well integrated. One way to avoid common mistakes is to get your work critiqued by peers, sponsors and potential users.

 

4.

Will:
In the book, you emphasize white space, and yet I’ll bet this is one of the hardest things for us instructional designers to get. Just as we tend to cram content into our curriculums and don’t leave enough time for learning, I’ve often seen designs that cram content into our visuals without thinking about white space. What is white space and what are the top three things learning designers should realize about it?

 

Connie:
White space is also known as negative space. It’s the area in a visual that does not contain any images or text. It even includes the area in between letters. Here are three tips about working with white space.

  1. Think of white space as another element, just like text and images. These three building blocks of design have to work together to create a clear communication. Without white space, you can’t have form and without form, you can’t have white space.
  2. As you design, if you begin to focus on the shape of the white space, you begin to bring it into the foreground perceptually. Become conscious of the white space and make sure the shape is pleasing and that it’s not broken up into tiny little pieces.
  3. White space gives a viewer’s eyes a place to rest and allows a design to breathe. So don’t be stingy with your white space. Let your designs have some spaciousness.

 

 

 

5.

Will:
I put a ton of time into creating PPT slides for my workshops and presentations—and I’ve developed some beliefs over the years that may or may not be true. Would you comment and critique my visual-design prejudices?

  1. Never use clip art; photos are cheap, easily available, and convey more credibility.
  2. Using a transparency fade (for example when you take a photo but gradually fade one side of it into the background) is good looking, adds credibility, and enables room for pertinent text.
  3. It is better to have one major learning point per slide with a nice supporting visual, than to offer many ideas on the same slide.
  4. Using objects with some gradient is almost always preferred to no gradient.


Connie:

  1. It depends on what you mean by clip art. Although you want to avoid the silly smiling characters, there are wonderful collections of illustrated and simplified vector drawing that you can use to represent concepts and objects. You can make an entire presentation or eLearning course using this minimalist and distilled style.
  2. Adding a transparency fade is a good way to be able to add text. But it’s not the only way and if it looks very feathered, it could look dated. Other ways to add text are to use a large 1024×768 photo (the size of the entire slide) and then overlay a slightly transparent rectangle on part of the photo where you want the text. Place the text within that rectangle and ensure there is enough contrast to read it.
  3. I think you’re probably right about one point per slide. Don’t tell anyone but sometimes I might put three related points on a slide. Maybe I’m being lazy.
  4. A gradient can give an object a 3D appearance, but it’s not always necessary. The flat design trend has moved away from full gradients and you will now probably see more designs with flat or solid-looking objects. I don’t think there’s a wrong or a right way to fill in objects, but as trends change, a viewer’s idea of what is aesthetically pleasing will change.

 

6.

Will:
You mention perspective in your book. First, tell us what it is. Second, because you recommend it “to add realism to a story or scenario,” could you tell us if there is a secret to searching for photos with perspective in photo databases (so we don’t have to search through an endless array of photos)?

 

Connie:
Perspective is a way to trick the eyes into perceiving three dimensions on what is really a flat surface. I don’t know of any great way to find images with perspective other than to type that word into your photo database. Such as “street perspective,” for example.

7.

Will:
You mentioned distilled graphics. What are they and when should we use them?

Connie:
Distilled graphics are simplified, schematic or iconic visuals that represent objects or concepts. We perceive and understand them quickly, similar to the images on road signs. I think it’s a good idea to use these when you want to get an idea across quickly. Also, using a distilled graphic like a silhouette works like a visual suggestion of what it represents without getting into the detail. Another suggestion is to use distilled graphics instead of bullet points, placed near the text to represent the concept or fact. It’s tough to explain without a visual accompaniment!

 

8.

Will:
Connie, maybe you can help me. When I look for photos, sometimes I find myself spending half an hour or more just to find an image I deem acceptable. Am I nuts? Please help me! How long should I spend looking for an image?

Connie:
Will, I’m going to guess that you are a little nuts, but not because you take so long to find photos. But yes, searching for photos is one of the most time-consuming aspects of this career. Most stock photo sites that weren’t specifically made for eLearning seem to have an advertising/marketing focus. The photographers still have that mindset, where rather than showing people in realistic situations, they show people smiling at the camera or cheering. There’s not enough diversity in the image choices either. I got so frustrated one day, I sat down and wrote an article about this problem: 21 Reasons Why Stock Photo Sites Make Me Cry.

 

9.

Will:
I have a new favorite font, but while it’s in Microsoft Office, when some of the online meeting tools convert it, they replace my beautiful artsy font with a boring font often of the wrong size. Are there any ways to do a work around? Can I search-and-replace fonts for example?

Connie:
For those situations, you could make a second version of the presentation for online meeting tools and change the font to a similar but more common one in your template. Even though it might be boring, it everything will line up the way you want it to. If the online meeting tool is hosted by a professional association or a company, you can see if they would be willing to install the font on the hosting computer.

As to replacing fonts, I’ve always replaced the font in the Slide Master and that usually works. You may have to choose the Master Layout again in your slide though.

 

10.

Will:
Connie, I love the section in your book on creating a visual hierarchy. As you describe it, visual hierarchies send unconscious signals to our brains that prompt us to look at certain parts of the visual before other parts. I didn’t really know this until I read your book. Thank you! I’m a big believer in PowerPoint (or KeyNote, etc.) of revealing aspects of our visuals one at a time, which is probably cheating to get a similar effect to hierarchies—but sometimes there would be a huge benefit in having a visual hierarchy. Please educate us on how to create a visual hierarchy, and tell us why it’s so important.

 

Connie:
A visual hierarchy indicates where the viewer should look first, second and perhaps third. Make your most important element the first thing that people will look at. You can do this through contrast.  Make it larger, place it in the upper left or top of the screen, make the element more colorful or brighter or add movement (if appropriate to the learning). There are other ways, but that’s a good place to start.

 

11.

Will:
I notice you added humor into your book. I laughed out loud when you told me that to transform myself into an “expert designer” that I’d need to wear all black. LOL. Your book is extremely helpful—and one doesn’t even have to change their wardrobe.

What’s your most important message for us learning professionals? Besides reading your book, what else can we do to be more effective? And, are there any methods you’ve seen for getting evaluation feedback on our visual designs?

Connie:
There are a lot of things learning professionals can do in addition to reading my book, dressing in all black and getting piercings in weird places:

  • Analyze the visual design in your environment and see what works and what doesn’t. Think about what the designer was trying to achieve. Notice the layout, typography, color palette and focal point. This means studying the design of websites, apps, magazines, brochures, posters, books, catalogs, packaging, billboards, subway ads, store interiors, videos, icons and junk mail. You get the idea.
  • Start an online collection (via Pinterest, bookmark sites, etc.) of designs that you like. Then use these for inspiration the next time you are stuck.
  • Read design books. Although most design books focus on advertisements and branding, they still offer a lot of sound principles and inspiration.

 

12.

Will:
Finally, what’s the best way for people to get your book?

Connie:
Thanks for asking. My book is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and the ATD online bookstore, where it is discounted for members. I hope your readers understand that there are around 130 color graphics, which makes it a little more on the expensive side due to printing costs.

 

Will’s Note:
You can view the book on Amazon
by clicking the image below:

Interviewed on Subscription Learning — Interest from Germany

I was recently interviewed for a German audience on subscription learning.

You can read the interview here in German.

Here is a rough American English translation:

Will Thalheimer as Interviewed by Andrea Sattler

What is subscription learning (how does it work, what topics does it cover, who is it designed for/ what’s the target group…)?

Thanks Andrea for inviting me! I’m delighted to talk about subscription learning because I think it offers us, as elearning developers, a powerful new tool in our elearning toolbox.

As I wrote on the Subscription Learning website, Subscription Learning, as its name implies, provides an intermittent stream of learning-related interactions to those who are subscribed. These learning-related interactions–called “nuggets”–can involve a great variety of learning-related events, including content presentation, diagnostics, scenario-based questions, job aids, reflection questions, assignments, discussions, etc. Nuggets are short, usually presented in less than five minutes. Nuggets are intentionally scheduled over time to support learning, often utilizing research-based findings related to the spacing effect. Learners subscribe (or are subscribed) to one or more series of learning nuggets, called “threads.” Learning threads can be predesigned, selecting nuggets based on anticipated learner needs or they can be dynamically created based on learner performance.

Why do you recommend the use of “nugget learning”? What is it based on (e.g., are there any studies that prove that learning in short sequences is most successful…)?

Subscription learning is not new, of course. People have been learning from the content of their magazine subscriptions for over a century. Apprentices learned their trades by working alongside master craftsmen, and getting short doses of instruction spread out over months and years.

The subscription learning idea occurred to me when I was researching the spacing effect in the learning research. The spacing effect shows that repetitions of content are much better remembered when they are spread over time. Every university student knows what happens when they cram repetitions to prepare for exams. The do well on the exam, but they soon forget everything. The spacing effect demonstrates the opposite finding. When we spread learning over time, we remember more and we remember for longer periods of time. Interestingly, the spacing effect (also called spaced practice, distributed practice, etc.) is one of the most robust findings in the learning research, but one of the least utilized in the workplace learning-and-performance field.

My research-to-practice report details over 100 studies from scientific refereed journals.

In addition to the spacing effect, there are other reasons that subscription learning is effective:

  1. Learners can engage learning nuggets on their own timeframes.
  2. Learners can keep their learning easily accessible in memory.
  3. Learners can relate their learning more easily to workplace issues.
  4. Learners are more likely to integrate their learning with workplace cues.
  5. Learners can be prompted to actions while at work.
  6. Learning is often more palatable in shorter chunks.

How do learners benefit from this kind of learning? (if this is not already included in the answers to the above questions)

Learners benefit because they don’t have to sit through long and tedious classroom sessions or through similarly long elearning courses. They benefit because—if the subscription-learning is well designed—the learning will actually stick. It will be remembered. Learners benefit because the learning will be easier to integrate into their work.

How can subscription learning be integrated into corporate learning?

What’s fantastic is that we have arrived at a time and place where subscription learning can be utilized through both simple and complex technologies. Subscription learning can be as simple as a string of emails or as complicated as sophisticated decision scenarios triggered through software that highlights new learning nuggets on one’s mobile phone or laptop.

Subscription learning can be a standalone learning intervention or as an adjunct to traditional learning courses (or elearning). It can be part of a run-of-the-mill training session or part of a strategically-important initiative led by a company’s CEO.

Do you have any experience with subscription learning in companies? If so, can you give us an example of how this is used in the company, and what experiences they have had so far?

Although I am now a dedicated learning consultant, I once led a leadership-development product line and taught leadership to managers at large corporations. After my courses, I would keep in touch with my learners through email over the next several months, sending engaging and entertaining emails that reinforced key learning points. I still remember one comment from a learner that reinforced the value. “Hey Will, I didn’t read every email you sent, but the one’s I read, I really did get value out of. They reinforced what we learned in the training. Thanks!”

Subscription learning is erupting everywhere. Last year, a subscription-learning program used by people all over the world to learn languages won Apple’s App of the Year. Verizon, a giant telecom company in the United States is using subscription learning in many ways. A large financial services company used subscription learning to prepare their sales folks.

Any Final Thoughts?

Subscription Learning is here to stay. But here’s the thing. We’re just getting started with it—we have a lot more to learn. And I don’t want to be accused of adding to the hype cycle. Subscription learning, although it is an incredibly powerful tool that will transform the elearning landscape, won’t replace traditional elearning. We’ll still have relatively long elearning engagements. But in addition, we’ll now have another tool in our toolbox.

The key to success for organizations who want to use it today will be to follow research-based learning design recommendations and find innovative vendors who can have already captured lessons learned. It’s imperative on us all to begin experimenting and learning how to use the subscription-learning approach.

Will Thalheimer Interviewed by Brent Schlenker

, ,

I had the great pleasure of being interviewed recently by Brent Schlenker, long-time elearning advocate. We not only had a ton of fun talking, but Brent steered us into some interesting discussions.

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He's created a three-part video series of our discussion:

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Brent is a great interviewer–and he gets some top-notch folks to join him. Check out his blog.

 

Learning about the Financial Crises. Michael Lewis Interviews…

Michael Lewis's new book, The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine, sounds fascinating—and important.

Brad Pitt bought the movie rights, so it's clearly got an interesting story to tell.

Michael Lewis tells the story of the folks who first figured out that the financial disaster was coming (the one that caused our current Great Recession). Lewis shows how these oddball stock traders figured out how Wall Street was making huge mistakes—when no one else could see it coming.

The following two interviews are must reading if you want to know how we got into the economic mess we are in. They're also riveting storytelling for the most part.

Learning professionals should listen to the interviews—and read the book too—for two themes: (1) How do people's mental models make it hard for them to understand the changing landscape, (2) How attempts at persuasion often fail in the face of these mental models. You might also find it fun to consider how you would "train" the citizenry to have a better understanding of how its government and Wall Street tycoons failed, how financial markets work, etc. Finally, note how Michael Lewis (and the interviewers) set up the dialogue to make a very difficult topic understandable. Great stuff!!

Interview with Terry Gross of Fresh Aire
About 40 minutes.

Interview with All Things Considered
About 9 minutes.

Cammy Bean Interviews Me — On E-learning Design Flaws

,

Cammy Bean interviews me in regard to the three most important e-learning design flaws in today's e-learning. I discussed three—and then two more!! Five design flaws in all.

How's your e-learning?

Check out the interview here.

You can also download the segments as podcasts.

Interview with Roy Pollock. New Book Helps both Learners and Their Managers Make Training Work

It has been my pleasure and privilege to co-teach several learning measurement workshops with Dr. Roy Pollock, and to follow the important work that he and his colleagues have done at The Fort Hill Company over the years. I acknowledged their work by awarding Cal Wick, Fort Hill's Founding Father, the Neon Elephant Award back in 2006. I've also reviewed their ground-breaking book, The Six Disciplines of Breakthrough Learning, and have recently reviewed their new book, Getting Your Money's Worth from Training and Development.

Now, I have captured Roy in a video interview, that I think you'll enjoy and learn from.

You can purchase the book by clicking on the Amazon.com link below:

Again, I highly recommend the book. Read my book review to see how much.